Why TurboTax's Mistake Led to a $10,000 IRS Bill and 50% Penalty

Juliet Chuang00:00:07

If you ever typed your bank's name into Google and clicked the first link to log in.Stay with us.The Justice Department just showed how criminals have been buying that first link.Plus why more people are paying cash at the register and the rule that says a store cannot add a card fee to your debit card and a scam aimed at families who already have someone in jail with the calls coming from inside prisons.Then I have questions, commentary, things that I'm just going to throw out Ralph that he has not been able to prepare for.And Ralph will also talk to us whether you can blame your tax software when the IRS sends a penalty.And finally, we're going to check in on this week's money move.So let's get into it.Welcome to becoming financially confident, where we are breaking free from money shame, one conversation at a time.We're live every Monday through Friday from 11:30am Eastern.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:01:04

Yeah.I'm Ralph Estep Jr.I'm the licensed public accountant with 30 years of experience on the show.

Juliet Chuang00:01:09

I'm Juliet.I am not licensed.I just have questions.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:01:12

Well, questions are good.And as you can tell, we're two very different people having conversations about the things that affect our money.And I bet they affect your money, too.And as I always say on this show, we got two house rules.No shame in anybody about money.And nobody's going to be judged for what they didn't know yesterday.Today's a brand new day, and our goal is to help equip you, inform you, and help you make better decisions moving forward.

Juliet Chuang00:01:35

So if you have anything you want to talk about related to finance, definitely send it to us@becomingfinanciallyconfident.com, no question, is off limits.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:01:44

Yeah.Because wherever you are on your financial journey, know you're not alone.And we're on that journey with you as well.All right, Julia, you ready for this one?

Juliet Chuang00:01:57

Yeah.What's the first one?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:01:58

So the first one is the fake bank link at the top of Google.

Juliet Chuang00:02:03

Okay.So I'm guessing this is you're going to tell me about how Google has sponsored links at the very top and people frequently click on those.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:02:10

Yeah.So almost all of us do this.We want to check your bank account.So you type in your bank's name into the Google and into the Google.I sound like my grandmother.You type the bank's name into Google and the first thing that comes up, you click on it.

Juliet Chuang00:02:22

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:02:23

Well, here's the problem.On September 8th, the Justice Department announced that it extradited.Listen, this it extradited a man, it says to help run fake login pages.

Juliet Chuang00:02:33

Oh, oh.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:02:33

So people found these pages through paid ads.So Google was being paid to put.These ads are sitting right at the top of the search results.And more than 5,000 usernames and passwords were typed into pages.It looked exactly like the real bank.This is the.One of the things about AI.You can train these AI bots to go out and look at your bank, like Wells Fargo or Bank of America, and these knuckleheads are actually creating fake sites.And, you know, I guess they're helping the economy.They're paying Google to promote them.So when somebody types in bank of America, bang.You get nailed.

Juliet Chuang00:03:07

Yeah, for sure.I mean, when you were talking about that, I was like, I need to remember to.What is it?Clear my cookies from time to time.And just like, you know, you know how yesterday we talked about adding friction into your lives?Purpose.Intentionally adding friction to your lives.I think that's just one of the things I got to do.Or other options.Explore other browsers that don't have as many sponsored links.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:03:31

I think that's a good choice.And I'll tell you what my big thing to do is.If you use your phone, use their app, it just makes it so much simpler because then you're actually going through their app.You're not going through the web.And here's a little trick for those of us who.Who are on the Mac operating system.You can actually go to your bank's website, confirm it.Then you can go into the Google Chrome, and you can actually create an app that will come up in the bottom of your desktop so that, you know, you're always going directly to the bank.Because this is.I mean, this is a big deal when you have 5,100 account takeover complaints, $262 million lost since last January.

Juliet Chuang00:04:14

That's crazy.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:04:15

That's a big deal.So here's your do for today.Bookmark your bank's real login.You can put it right into whichever browser you use.This way you don't go in there and type into, like I said, the Google and use that.Never log in from an ad.This is just one of those things.If you can avoid it, it's always a better thing to do.

Juliet Chuang00:04:33

Duchess of NJ in the chat says, I always hover my cursor over the link to see the properties.Or you can right click it as well.Actually, judges, can you, like, scroll down, say a little bit more?What are you trying to.What are you looking for in the properties are you talking about after the final slash, like.com/, and then you're looking at the properties there.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:04:52

That's probably what she's talking about.Because when you look at that, the whole link, what you'll find is, it might say, like, something dot, bank of America dot blah, blah, blah, blah.That's how they spoof these things, because they don't actually own the domain for the bank.But what they do is they put a couple characters at the front, they put a couple characters at the back end.So that way you can actually see it, but you don't see it when you're typing in.But if you, like Dutchess said, if you hover over that, you'll see the entire URL when you do that.

Juliet Chuang00:05:21

I do remember one time I was logging, I forget which, like, financial institution this was, but their login page was not, like a clear URL.And it freaked me out.And I was like, are you sure?So I kept on going back to be like, start over, re, enter whatever the institution name is.Look at all the links.But then it was just.It was just this funky URL.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:05:42

Yeah.And I think the banks are learning from that, too.At one point, the banks were coming up with all these secondary login websites and all that kind of stuff.Get cash.And.And I think what they realized is people are looking for bankofamerica.com wells fargo.com PNC bank.com and that's the way you keep yourself out of trouble.So.And it's funny she said what Ralph said.So, you know, Touches and I are very much on the same wavelength.I think it might be an age thing.What do you think?

Juliet Chuang00:06:09

I mean, I think it's a.It's.It.I don't think it's necessarily just age.Just age.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:06:16

We're both.We're both very wise.

Juliet Chuang00:06:19

Yes.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:06:20

Which leads me to this.Listen to this one, Juliet.Card fees.You know, the fees that these people are charging to use your credit card are actually sending people back to using cash.

Juliet Chuang00:06:32

Okay.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:06:33

So you go to the store.You go to the store.And I've seen this happen many times.And there's a little sign that says, oh, if you want to use your credit card, we add a 3% fee.And people are saying, I'm not paying the fee, and they're pulling out cash.

Juliet Chuang00:06:48

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:06:50

This is a big deal.Because more and more places, in full disclosure, my accounting practice does the same thing.Are adding this percent when you pay with a credit card and people are pushing back by paying cash.

Juliet Chuang00:07:02

Yeah.That is true.I believe.So.I used to work in the restaurant industry.And they just call that a cash discount.Right.Because the cash is cheaper, because you don't have to pay additional card fees on that because of the card fees.That's why a lot of retailers are going to push that back onto the consumer.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:07:21

Yeah.And what's interesting is the Federal Reserve actually studied this, and they said four out of five of us used cash in the last month, and 90% plan to keep using it.In full disclosure, I can't remember the last time I've actually used cash.

Juliet Chuang00:07:37

I think that that statistic is just.It's a real indication to me how crazy all the price is where, like, this is a way where, like, we can save a little bit of money here, a little bit of money there.I'm gonna do that.You know, so.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:07:51

But I'm gonna give you a couple things that a lot of people don't know about.

Juliet Chuang00:07:54

What is it?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:07:55

3% Is visa.If you have the Visa emblem, that's the cap on a credit card surcharge, you are not allowed to charge somebody more than 3%.And here's the thing a lot of people don't know.The store has to post it at the door.It has to be posted at the register, and it's got to be printed on the receipt.So if you were in a store and they're saying to you, hey, I'm going to charge you this surcharge, you can easily say to them, I didn't see that posted at the door.It's not here at the register, and I don't see it on your receipt.Here's another thing.I wasn't even aware of this.Debit and prepaid cards, you are not allowed to charge the surcharge.Now, you got to remember, all of this goes back to Visa rules.

Juliet Chuang00:08:37

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:08:38

If it's a MasterCard, they don't have these same rules if it's an American Express card or Discover.Is Discover even a thing anymore?Any of the others may not have those anymore.

Juliet Chuang00:08:48

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:08:48

The problem is, it's just one of those things where you got to be aware of this, because if you add 3% here and 3% there, it's like a tax.

Juliet Chuang00:08:57

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:08:57

And.And in defense, I have a lot of clients on the other side of this business.People.And all we're doing, and I say we because I'm one of the ones doing this, is we're passing along that surcharge that we're getting charged.

Juliet Chuang00:09:08

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:09:09

So that we're trying to not.And.And the argument could be made, well, we're trying not to increase prices, so we're adding this surcharge to make everything equal.But I think we're just annoying our customers, to be honest.And I think that's what the pushback is.So in our practice, if you want to write a check, there's no surcharge for writing a check.If you want to do a ach Direct debit from your account, there's no surcharge.But if you use a credit card, now, our system actually adds it in easily, directly, which is a great thing.

Juliet Chuang00:09:36

This is just a fascinating thing, because in America, there is.There's a lot of restaurants or a lot of places that just say credit and debit only.And so that means in those institutions or those retailers, you will have to have be charged that card fee, right?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:09:54

Absolutely.

Juliet Chuang00:09:55

Yeah.So Dutchess said, if I go to the restaurant, I usually pay via my debit card, but I tip in cash.I think I just got to start putting.Making sure I have some cash on me.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:10:05

And did you like what enforce seeker just put in the chat?You got to read that one.

Juliet Chuang00:10:09

Okay.Am I saying this right?Capone bought Discover.Wait, really?Wait.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:10:14

Yeah.Maybe he's talking about Al Capone.I don't know.

Juliet Chuang00:10:18

I'm thinking about Al Capone.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:10:20

That's what I was thinking.But anyway, so here's the thing.Here's your takeaway for this.If you see a card fee, pay with your debit card and check the receipt.Make sure they didn't charge you for it.And if you pay with your debit card, say to them, Whoa, wait a second.Slow down.You can't charge me for this.

Juliet Chuang00:10:36

Yes.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:10:36

Something to be aware of.But now, Juliet, we're going to go to prison.

Juliet Chuang00:10:41

Oh.Oh, that was fast.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:10:44

Yeah, we're going to.Unless you have something else you want to talk about with the debit or credit cards.

Juliet Chuang00:10:48

No.I guess we could go to prison.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:10:50

I want to go to prison.Everybody's thinking, where is Ralph?Driving this crazy bus today.

Juliet Chuang00:10:55

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:10:55

Well, guess what?The newest scam, and this one's hard to hear, people are calling from within prisons and asking you to pay bail for somebody on the outside.This comes from a Wall Street Journal report that people in prison are using smuggled cell phones to call families across the country.Here's what they do.They look up who just got arrested, which is a public record, and they call the family member pretending to be a bail bondsman or a court program, and say, pay now.And your Son gets out.One man.Listen to this one.One man sent $12,000 through the cash app.Through the Cash app.

Juliet Chuang00:11:37

Wow.Okay.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:11:38

And the State of Georgia's Department of Corrections put out its own warning about this over the summer.

Juliet Chuang00:11:43

Uh huh.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:11:44

Can you imagine this?You know, if all of a sudden you got a call and said, hey, your co host on air, Ralph is in jail.

Juliet Chuang00:11:52

Uh huh.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:11:53

You know, and then they said, if you have a Cash app, you can cash app.And Ralph gets out like a jaybird.He's ready to go.What would you do?

Juliet Chuang00:12:00

I'd be like, I first want a phone call directly from Ralph.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:12:04

I agree.

Juliet Chuang00:12:06

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:12:06

And here's the thing to understand.No real agency is going to allow you to release somebody money by phone.They're not going to allow you to do it with a gift card.They're not gonna allow you to do it with a payment app, and they're certainly not gonna allow you to do it with cryptocurrency.So this one, it just, it chuckles me because.And it's funny, I was meeting with somebody earlier today and we were talking about what we were going to talk about on the show today.And she says, how crazy is it now that the folks who are in jail are.They almost got more rights than us on the outside and they've got cell phones.I mean, how, how is it, oh, you know what?It's time for Ralph.Ralph, Ralph, Ralph rant, rant, rant.Ralph, Ralph rant.Here he goes.How are we allowing prisoners to have cell phones in jail?I'm just saying, like, how does that happen?

Juliet Chuang00:13:01

Well, okay, so my response to that is, I, it's not a bad thing.It's not a bad thing to let them have contact with other humans, like part of their families and stuff, you.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:13:13

Know, oh, this is one of those ones that Julia and I might disagree on.

Juliet Chuang00:13:17

We're gonna disagree.Like, let's just think, like if, okay, we're gonna cap this conversation very soon.But I'm just saying, let's say if you did go to jail, right, and you had no contact with the outside world, would you be okay with that?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:13:29

No, But I think there are other ways to have contact with the outside world.I don't know that giving people who have been.I mean, the whole point of going to jail is you've lost freedom because you've made a decision or you've done something.Right.Whether you're rightly accused or wrongly accused, you made a decision.Somebody, something happened in a jury of your peers, decided that you are Losing your freedom.

Juliet Chuang00:13:51

Yeah.We'll cap this conversation here, because I think it just goes into this territory that we don't need to go into.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:13:58

It's all good.But here, if you get this call, hang up the call.And if somebody really was just arrested, but, you know, hey, my Uncle Joe just got arrested.Call the jail on the number from its official website and pay only in person, because here's the thing.I think I know, and I've never been to prison, so I'm answering this question like, I. I don't think the jail is going take debit cards or credit cards.I got a feeling you're going to have to transfer money or pay cash.

Juliet Chuang00:14:24

I have a feeling of that, too.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:14:26

Yeah, it's interesting.

Juliet Chuang00:14:28

Yeah.I will say.What did I want to say about.Nope, I completely forgot it.But Infoseeker has corrected us in the chat.It's not Al Capone that bought Discover.Capone is supposed to be Capital One, the other banking institution.So Capital One, pot discovery.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:14:48

This.This is a great conversation, isn't it?We've got Al Capone, prison contraband, and Juliet and Ralph don't agree.That's a cool.That's a great morning for a Thursday morning, isn't it?

Juliet Chuang00:14:57

Yeah, it is.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:14:59

Anything else we want to talk about on this one?

Juliet Chuang00:15:01

Not.Not this one.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:15:03

Very good.Well, let's talk about this.When's the last time you actually looked at your credit score?Most people avoid it, and they don't avoid it because they don't care.I think most people care about their credit, but they're scared of what that number is going to show.And here's the thing.The Federal Trade Commission found one in four people have an error on their credit report, and that leads to paying too much for loans for a mistake that isn't even yours.And you can't even dispute it if you don't know it's there.So here's one of the things that I recommend you do.Go Sign up for WalletHub.WalletHub is absolutely free.It updates your credit daily, and it will tell you exactly what's dragging your number down.Go to becoming financially confident.com wallet.Again, that's becoming financially confident.com wallet and take a look at your credit and see what you can do to improve it.

Juliet Chuang00:16:00

So right now it is the.An accountant reacts where I just have a list of random things that I just want to get Ralph's reaction to and see reaction and have a conversation about.Okay, all right, I'm going to.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:16:11

I'm going to relax here, you know, because I don't know what's coming my way, but.But I'm ready.

Juliet Chuang00:16:17

Promise.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:16:17

I'm ready.As long as I don't end up in prison or, you know, something like that.I'm in good shape.

Juliet Chuang00:16:22

You're gonna be fine.Have you ever heard of the companies Kalshi and Poly Market?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:16:27

Cal Sheet.I've heard.Polymarket.That one I've heard of before.The first one I.Now Kalshee K A L S H I. I saw something in my.In my Apple news this morning about this.

Juliet Chuang00:16:38

Oh, okay.So do you remember what Polymarket does?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:16:42

Oh, Polymarket.No.You're gonna have to help me.I. I know the name, but I don't.It's some sort of tacit agreement to something.I understand.

Juliet Chuang00:16:48

Okay.So there.These are two companies that have really become a lot more visible over the last two years or so.And so these two.I forget what the right way to describe them are, but they just.You bet on world events or like live events.Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:17:02

So it started straight up gambling.

Juliet Chuang00:17:06

Straight up gambling.I. I see.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:17:08

This is great.We talked about Al Capone, organized crime, prison and gambling.This is a great show.

Juliet Chuang00:17:14

Al Capone by accident.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:17:16

I understand that.

Juliet Chuang00:17:17

Yeah, yeah.So I just wanted to like, when you hear that companies like Calcium Polymarket are just so.I think they consider themselves tech companies, but it makes gambling so much easier.Like, I. I'm curious what your first reaction is.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:17:33

All right, so my first reaction is, oh, great, we live in a capitalist society.I'm cool with that.They figured out a way to make money.That's where I'm at first.But second thing, this is the heart side of Ralph.

Juliet Chuang00:17:44

Yeah, yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:17:44

I've seen what gambling has done to people.It destroys people.

Juliet Chuang00:17:49

It really does.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:17:50

It does.I've seen.Listen, I've had clients that had going businesses making several hundred thousand dollars a year lose everything they have in front of.What do they call that?The slot machines.

Juliet Chuang00:18:03

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:18:04

And now they've just made it so much easier.I gotta be careful what I say here.I know of clients, not necessarily my clients, but I know of people that gamble all day long on their cell phone.

Juliet Chuang00:18:14

It's that dopamine hit.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:18:16

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.It's that rush.And I've actually asked the question.I said, you know, what did you think was going to happen?And it usually starts off with, well, I was just killing time.I had a little bit of extra time and I thought I'd have some fun.And, you know, it wasn't money that I necessarily needed.It was no big deal money, all that sort of thing.But then it becomes a daily.And it's an addiction.Let's just be honest.

Juliet Chuang00:18:38

It really is.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:18:39

Yeah, it's an addiction.And when I see companies like this promoting it, like I said, this is very hard for me because I see both sides of this.I see one side of it is here's a business that people are willing to pay for.And there's, you know, it's not like you're holding it, but at the same time, one could argue the same thing about lottery tickets.One could argue the same thing about going to.Is there even horse tracks around?I guess there still are, but that used to be a thing.

Juliet Chuang00:19:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.I completely agree with you.Like, I just didn't really.I understand, like, sports betting in that realm, and there's companies that have worked on that.But when I heard about Calcean polymarket, I was like, we have crossed too far across the line.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:19:18

Yeah.But you know what?A lot of sports enthusiasts would argue that sports betting is destroying sports, especially college football now.I mean.

Juliet Chuang00:19:25

I mean.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:19:27

Oh, yeah, I'm a big college football fan.And now that the players are getting paid.I don't know if you know about this or not, but college football players are now getting paid.

Juliet Chuang00:19:35

The only thing that I know about college player athletes in general.Right.Are getting paid is you actually don't know what the issue or, like, the concern is.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:19:45

Yeah.So they're getting paid.Here's the issue.They're getting paid.Which I think is.Is justified because they're making tons of money for these schools right there.I get that.The problem is now all of a sudden, you've got people gambling on those games as well.

Juliet Chuang00:20:00

That's true.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:20:00

So how long is it going to take till somebody go and approach one of these young schools or one these young folks and says, you know what?You're the quarterback for pick a school, Alabama.You know what?We really need to lose this game this week.Right.Nudge, nudge, hint, hint.

Juliet Chuang00:20:16

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:20:17

I just worry about that.

Juliet Chuang00:20:18

And that's already happened on the professional level in.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:20:21

Absolutely.It's happened on the professional level.Happens on all of them.Pete Rose was thrown out of baseball for betting on games when he was a Cincinnati Reds manager.I don't believe he's even in the hall of Fame yet because of that.Banning him from baseball.It's happened.It's happened to many people.But I just think, you know, those are.I don't Say adults, because college kids are adults.They don't seem like adults to me.But.But now I'm just thinking about young adults.Yeah.That's what I'm worried about, Julia.And then.And like you said, when it makes it so much easier, I mean, literally, I can grab my iPhone now, and I can probably go gamble at casinos through a VPN now.It doesn't matter what state I'm in.Yeah, just go and do that on your.And the other thing, I think the other side of that is because it's virtual.It's almost like you don't feel it.It's not real.You know, people are like, oh, that's just.It's fake money.Because I remember, and this is going to really date myself.But I remember when.When smartphones first came out, they had casino apps and all that kind of stuff.You're playing for points.It didn't matter.

Juliet Chuang00:21:17

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:21:17

But now you're literally paying for cash.I mean, you literally are paying for money.It's a big problem.

Juliet Chuang00:21:23

I think you touched on something really important here where it's like, it really depends on what the environment is.Right.Like, when you physically go into it, you can more so feel that it's real money.Like, you have chips in your hand or you have tokens.But then, like, when you abstract it, it almost feels.Feels even more fake.And so people can do something in their mind, be like, this is not real.It's gonna be fine.I'm gonna be fine.That kind of a thing.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:21:48

Yeah.And I'll tell you, this client is no longer a client of mine.I remember.I never forget.I was working on their books, and one of the things I was doing is I'm going through their bank statements and getting all their transactions into QuickBooks so we could keep track of their profit and loss.And a typical day would start like this.They'd go to the ATM machine.They'd take $500 out at the casino.So it was like.It wasn't a big shockeroo.It was like, here's the casino.Here's the address.Then they would take another 500 out, and then they would leave, and they go to a gas station down the road and take 300 out, and then they take 200 out, and then take.And I asked him one time, I said, explain this to me.Well, you know, we were getting money out of the ATM at the casino, but we thought, maybe if we get money from over here, it'll be lucky money.And because we actually left, we came back and it's like, you know, and then what would happen is they'd be so far down, they'd be down $1,500.And then they say, well, we'll just take $200 more.And then now they're down $1,700.Oh, I'm just gonna take $100 more, because if I win, I win all my money back.A lot of people don't know this.I don't know if you know this or not, Juliet.The casino payout percentages, it's really low, isn't it?It's like 90%.

Juliet Chuang00:22:59

Because I heard that all casinos, like, put it in favor of the house,.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:23:03

But it's not actually.When you look at most gaming regulations by the state, the first, and this is where you have to be careful.Gambled on the first dollar, the payout, the payback's like 90%.

Juliet Chuang00:23:14

Oh.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:23:15

But then when you put the second dollar in, it goes down and down and down.Look, if you're in a casino gambling, the odds are stacked against you.

Juliet Chuang00:23:23

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:23:23

And if you're doing it on your phone, you're doing it online, the odds are stacked against you.Unless you're my wife.My wife walks into casino for her birthday about 10 years ago.Her girlfriend said, we should go to the casino.We're going to eat some dinner.True story.My wife put $20 in.She won fifteen hundred dollars.She took the fifteen hundred dollars, put it in her pocket and left.That's that.See, that doesn't happen.And most people don't get to that point.But anyway.Yeah, so I agree with you.I think we're making it more routine because now those type of companies are betting on, you know, like right now, Trump and Xi Jinping are meeting in the White House.They're probably, you know, is there an.Is an announcement?You know, what kind of color tie does the guy wear?I mean, we're betting on everything they're.

Juliet Chuang00:24:06

Going to do on Kalshian.Paul.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:24:07

We are betting on everything at this point.

Juliet Chuang00:24:10

Yeah.And I just don't.Personally, I don't like that because I think it just takes away from being human and like, the whole idea of, like, community.Duchess of N.J. says, quote, Lucky money, unquote.I wish I feel you.Yeah.Only a. Ralph's wife is lucky.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:24:25

Well, you know, and, And.And I'm not lucky like that, to be honest with you.Like, I. I don't have that luck.And, and you know, the thing about me, like, I. I've gone to the casino a few times, and I get so angry at myself because I know in the casino.Well, yeah, because I have the propensity to gamble.Like, I know that, like, this is how my mind works.So, like, I don't drink.Like, for example, I'll be.I'll be very candid.I don't drink alcohol.The reason I don't drink alcohol is there was a time in my life when I was younger that I was drinking too much alcohol.

Juliet Chuang00:24:54

Wait, so is it actually propensity to be addictive on something?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:24:58

I think that's what it is.And I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but I think that's what we're keying in on here.The propensity to get addicted to things.And I think, unfortunately, it's a very natural human trait to be addicted to things.We can talk about sex, we can talk about money, we can talk about gambling, we can talk about food.We can talk about all of those things.I think so many human beings have a propensity to that addictive personality.And if, you know, like my youngest son, I said to him, I said, do.Do yourself a favor.Don't drink at all.Okay?Now, he's now two years sober because he got himself in trouble.But we knew the propensity was there.So Ralph's tip of the day.If you have an addictive personality, stay out of the casino, stay out of the liquor store.Don't go to the corner drug dealer, because that'll get you in trouble too.

Juliet Chuang00:25:48

I think that's such a good thing to recognize because I. I don't have an addictive personality.Like, I just like to roam around and see more and more of different experiences.So, like, I've been to casinos before.I get so bored, within, like, 30 seconds, I'm like, okay, that's cool.Bye.What's next?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:26:04

What did you ever notice in the casinos, too?My wife pointed this out to me.There's no natural light.

Juliet Chuang00:26:09

Nope.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:26:09

It always looks like it's, you know, it's a beautiful place, it smells good, the sounds are great.You get as many drinks as you want because they don't want you to even think about what's on the outside to real.

Juliet Chuang00:26:20

That's true.And I will say this something else about, like, casinos.I don't really like dimly lit places.It makes me feel like I am losing my eyesight, and I don't like that.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:26:30

Well, again, what they're trying to do is they're trying to reduce your senses.That's what this.It's a mind game.But anyway, I think We've beat this topic to death, haven't we?

Juliet Chuang00:26:39

Yes.Okay, so the next section, I have some blanket statements here.And I just want you to say yes or no.Do you believe in these statements or not?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:26:47

Okay, so blanket statements.Rapid fire.Here we go.

Juliet Chuang00:26:50

Yeah.Wait, before we go, Duchess of NJ says she goes for shows never to gamble.I'm with you.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:26:56

And I.Actually, Duchess, I want to address that, because I think that is the best place to see shows because I think they're designed.The places where you have shows at the casinos are great.Like, Dutchess is in New Jersey, and I guarantee it.I've been to Atlantic City.That's a big casino area in New Jersey.I don't know if you've ever been there, Juliet, or not, but the shows are amazing.And usually I'll call it an arena.But the place where they do the shows is usually really nice in these casinos.

Juliet Chuang00:27:21

I've definitely seen those before in Las Vegas because that's closer to where I am.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:27:24

Absolutely.All right, so we're gonna get the blanket statements.

Juliet Chuang00:27:27

Okay, so do you still believe that everybody or most people should do this?Okay, so the first one is buy a house.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:27:35

Oh, boy, do I think that everybody should do this.

Juliet Chuang00:27:42

No, I have waffled on my.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:27:43

Oh, no.And actually, I'm going to talk about this next week, actually, in one of our headline sections.But I used to believe that it was the American dream to own a home.

Juliet Chuang00:27:55

Okay, I'm just gonna stop it there, because next week we can talk about why.How you.Why.What made you change your mind?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:00

So my answer to your question specifically is no.

Juliet Chuang00:28:03

Okay.Number two, get a stable job.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:10

Yes.

Juliet Chuang00:28:11

Okay, now, wait.Can you qualify what a stable job is?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:17

So here's where it gets complicated, because as you said that I thought stable might not necessarily mean just one job.I would change the wording.You didn't.I'm going to take some poetic license here.

Juliet Chuang00:28:27

Okay.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:28

I would say have stable income.

Juliet Chuang00:28:30

Yes.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:31

Yes.

Juliet Chuang00:28:31

I. Oh, I like that statement so much better.Okay, we're gonna save that.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:35

You can trademark that.Just make sure you put my name and send the royalty checks to me.

Juliet Chuang00:28:39

I don't think we can trademark that sentence.Next one.Don't have debt.Do not have debt.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:47

I absolutely disagree with that.

Juliet Chuang00:28:50

Okay, are you saying that because you say there is good or, like, better.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:28:56

Debt versus worse debt, I firmly believe there is good debt, bad debt, and maybe not so great debt.

Juliet Chuang00:29:02

We'll talk about this.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:29:03

Definitely not.Yeah, there's a guy out there called Dave Ramsey, and Dave Ramsey is one of these pontificators of financial knowledge who 100% disagrees with credit card debt.I completely, unequivocally disagree with him.If you can use your credit cards wisely, use them.Take advantage of that.Now if you're going to go in debt with them.Him and I are probably on the same page.

Juliet Chuang00:29:28

I, you know, I think we should find somebody who is like an expert at maximizing their credit card benefits.I think that would be a really interesting conversation because I feel like I don't do that for mine.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:29:37

Yeah.And guess what?We're going to talk about that next week too.We're going to talk about how high these annual fees have gotten to the point where does it really make sense that you.Are you actually getting any benefit after these fees?

Juliet Chuang00:29:49

Yeah.Yeah.Okay, next one is do not talk about money.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:29:54

Oh, I absolutely disagree with that 100% that has kept so many people.Yeah.And you know, it's funny because Juliet and I actually had this conversation.We were at a conference, we were walking through the mall and we were just getting to know each other better before the show started.And she said, you know, one of the things that I wish my parents had done is talk more about money.And I think that's an issue.I think in this country we don't talk about money enough.And then we raise our children, we send them off to college, they start their first job and they're frickin clueless about money.Because no one's had a conversation with them.Because we've supported them the whole time but never said to them, hey, there is a limited number of dollars.Here's what you need to do.Yeah.So 100%.And that's why we do this show.Because you have to talk about money.

Juliet Chuang00:30:38

Yeah.And it's talking about the good, the bad and everything in between.I would say too.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:30:42

Sounds like a Clint Eastwood song or Clint Eastwood.The good, the bad and the ugly.Because there's good, there's bad and there's ugly money too.

Juliet Chuang00:30:48

Yeah, for sure.Okay, last statement that I have is work hard and you will be okay.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:30:54

Work hard and you will be okay.You know what, As I get older, I'm not sure that's true.I would change it to work smart and you'll be okay.Because I know some hard working people who.I'll give you a great example.It's story time.So I told you I used to run a credit union and I had 30.30.It was funny.There was one other man, he was the CEO.I was the evp.The rest of the people that worked there were women.It just happened to be that way.So one of the people that worked, her name was Marie.She's a great person.She was the teller administrator.So she was in charge of the teller.The people who.The people who took the mic.Yeah.So what a great woman.She was the hardest woman, working woman that I ever met, but she was the most inefficient, the most not getting anything done.And it was so hard because she was working hard.Like she would get there before everybody else and she would stay later than everybody else.But just because she was working hard doesn't mean she was working smart.

Juliet Chuang00:31:56

I like that clarification.Work smart and you'll be okay.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:31:58

Yeah.And I think you're going to be better than okay, actually.I think if you work smart, you'll be successful.Now we can have a whole discussion about what success means.I think maybe not success from other people's perspective, but success from your perspective.

Juliet Chuang00:32:13

Yeah.Yeah, I like that.I also think that for one of our conversations in the future, I would love to hear more about you being at credit union.Did I say that right?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:32:25

Credit union.

Juliet Chuang00:32:26

Credit union.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:32:26

It's basically a bank, but it's owned by its members.That's the difference.Do you understand the difference?So credit unions were originally established.What was going on is hard working, like people at assembly plants and all that couldn't get banking relationships.So they started forming these cooperatives of everybody, let's all throw our money together.And these credit unions have exploded now.There's very little difference now between a bank and a credit union.The only difference is credit unions are not for profit.They're not nonprofit, but they're not for profit.So the idea is they're owned by the members, they're managed by the members, and they're supposed to be for the benefit of the members.And I will tell you, I am a huge fan of credit unions.

Juliet Chuang00:33:07

I have so many more questions, but we just don't have time today for them.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:33:10

So we should definitely do a whole segment on that.We can talk about why credit unions.Here's what we're going to say.Banks suck.Banks suck.Banks suck.I'll say it three more times.Banks suck.

Juliet Chuang00:33:24

But we're differentiating between bank and credit union.Right?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:33:27

Unions are fantastic.Banks suck.

Juliet Chuang00:33:30

Interesting.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:33:31

They suck the life out of you.

Juliet Chuang00:33:33

Anybody who's watching this, if y' all have any questions about credit unions, please drop them and we will address them one day on this show.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:33:41

It's a Good thing I don't do any banking at this point.I get credit cards at banks because you know that's going to hit the highlight reel, right?Banks suck.Ralph saying it three times.

Juliet Chuang00:33:49

Abby.Abby's got it.She's writing it.Her notebook.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:33:51

Abby's already.I can.I'm looking over in the camera to the side and I see Abby in the mirror.She's cracking up.She's like, oh, banks suck.I can see it across the bottom of the screen.Does anybody agree with me?Anyway, I see banks versus credit unions.Dutches.Yep, I agree with you.

Juliet Chuang00:34:05

I have one final question just to round out the segment for today is what is.What did I write?Oh.So we talked about this week the dollar job framework.And one of the jobs for your money is fun.So I would.I'm very curious.What is one fun thing that you usually allow yourself to indulge in?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:34:27

Okay, so one fun thing that I do is, like I mentioned yesterday, I love technology, right.So my fun thing is I get the new iPhone every year.

Juliet Chuang00:34:35

Are you getting.But you say you're maybe holding off this year.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:34:38

No, I was B.S.I'm not gonna hold off.I am definitely not holding off.I'm going to tell you right now, when the duo comes out, it's going to be arriving at my house the day that it's available to ship.Because listen to this.I will set my alarm the morning that you can go and pre order this thing.I don't care if I got to get up at 3am the cool thing is it's always west coast time.But Ralph will be ordering that.Now, there's a little bit of a concern there because they said that Apple may not have enough to meet the demand.

Juliet Chuang00:35:07

I'm shooketh because that app, that phone is so expensive.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:35:12

Yeah, but define expensive.I don't drink, I don't smoke.I don't vape.You know, it's all.Money is money, right?You decide.That's why it's fun money.That's why it's fun money.That's right.It's fun money.Because I'm making a decision to do this with my money.That's the whole point of it.And if I couldn't afford it, then it wouldn't be in the fun category.It's definitely not a survival thing.It's not a mandatory thing.It's not, one could argue maybe that's stability.You know, it's definitely a want, it's not a need.Which was a great conversation.And thanks again for Kay Joining us yesterday.But what a great questions today.

Juliet Chuang00:35:48

And I will say I think I really liked yesterday's conversation because it wasn't specifically, oh, you should do this with your money in order to write.It's the.We were talking about the feelings and the emotions behind the money, which is kind of where we were going with.Especially with, like, people who have a propensity for addiction.Right.Oh, I just remembered what I wanted to say about scams.Y' all pay attention.If somebody is trying to take advantage, take advantage.Like, make you emotionally manipulate you potentially there's going to be a scam happening.Right?So, like, if somebody says, you got to do this now, pay attention to that.Say, like, maybe, maybe not.You always have a chance to walk away because your money is your money.Don't let anybody emotionally manipulate you into anything.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:36:32

I 100 agree with you, and I love what you ended that with listening to this show.We will never tell you how to spend your money.That's your decision.I say this to clients all the time.They're like, well, Ralph, if you help me manage my money, you're going to tell me where it goes.No, I'm going to help you manage.I'm going to help you be intentional with your decisions.But those are your decisions.

Juliet Chuang00:36:52

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:36:53

And understand that when anybody approaches you to buy something, that's your decision.

Juliet Chuang00:36:58

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:36:58

And like Julia just said, if somebody's trying to scam you, they're going to try to put the fear in you.They're going to try to make it happen right now.Like she said yesterday, the knuckleheaded, the Lasik's place said to her, if you don't sign up for this today, you're not going to get a discount next time.I'd have smacked that guy in the eye and been like, dude, what's wrong with you?He was trying to put pressure on you to get LASIK surgery.That's insanity.

Juliet Chuang00:37:19

Well, yeah, yeah, but it was one of those things where I was like, I was going to do this anyways.So you're.I don't feel taken advantage of.And yes, we will definitely have that conversation between banks and credit unions, because even between Duchess and Infoseeker, we got a credit union and somebody who likes their banks and somebody who's not a fan of banks.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:37:37

Abby is going to put that on our.Abby's going to put that on our list of things to talk about.And I guarantee we will talk about that because that's going to be a fun discussion.

Juliet Chuang00:37:46

Yeah.I have no more Nothing else for today's segment or this segment.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:37:51

So how do you tell now?Okay, give me a grade.How'd I do today?

Juliet Chuang00:37:56

I don't need to give you a grade.How do you feel?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:37:58

I feel like I did great.Like, besides the Poly market and Kalshi, I think I was right on point today.

Juliet Chuang00:38:04

I think you were right on point.There's also, like no right or wrong answer even on the Kalshi and the Poly Market stuff.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:38:12

But you know the cool thing about this whole discussion, it's allowed us to interact with our audience, our studio audience.And now we've got some great ideas for shows to come.So I think that's fantastic for sure.Well, let's talk about this one.Let's say you lent your brother in law $4,000.There's no paper because he's family and there never was going to be any family.But I've seen that kind of situation destroy a Thanksgiving dinner.I'm talking about turkey flying and all the things going around with that.Well, Law Depot is a company that helps you put those boring documents to prevent those arguments.Things like promissory notes, bill of sale or a rental agreement.The best thing about Law Depot is they have guided questions that are built for your state.And you can print right from there.And you can start a free trial by going to becoming financiallyconfident.com lawdepot again, that's becomingfinanciallyconfident.com lawdepot.And let's not have any more Thanksgiving breakdowns.All right.Today on the what it cost me, I want to ask you a simple question.

Juliet Chuang00:39:24

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:39:25

Can you blame tax software if it makes a mistake?What do you think, Juliet?So if you go and file your taxes and you go to TurboTax or any of the.I'm not just picking on TurboTax.Any of the other ones.

Juliet Chuang00:39:40

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:39:40

And you file your return and it turns out it was wrong.Can you blame the tax software?

Juliet Chuang00:39:49

I should be able to because I'm.The whole point of the software is they say, oh, we have.We know the best way to get the most out of your money and we know all of the rules.Like that's what they should be doing, right?I don't know it.I'm not the lpa.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:40:01

I'm gonna play a sound effect.You can forget that.So here's the story.I'm going to start off with a story.This is.This is an actual story that happened to a client of mine.So I get this phone call and this person's Got to talk to me right away.This was an after tax season situation.So I don't have as much availability on my calendar after tax season because I don't work like a crazy man.So my secretary pushes the call back to me and she says, somebody's on the phone and they just got an IRS notice and they're freaking out.I said, okay, fine.I said, have them come in.The next day they came in, husband and wife, got a little baby with them.They sit down in front of me and they show me this IRS notice.And the IRS was asking for $10,000.And I said, okay.Did you file the return?They said, oh, yeah, we filed the return.We used TurboTax, and TurboTax actually got us the biggest refund we've ever gotten.Ralph.We got an $8,000 refund.And I said, okay, well, do you normally get a refund?No, not.Not usually.Usually we owe about 1500 to $2,000.I said, okay, well, did you think when you filed the return that something was wrong?And he said, no, this TurboTax was great.It asked us questions it's never asked before.In fact, it had us taken deductions I didn't even realize I qualified for.So here's what happened.TurboTax talked them into deductions they didn't deserve.And instead of getting an $8,000 refund, which they got, the IRS sent them a bill for 10 grand.Because not only did they.Yeah, because here's the thing.They had to pay back the 8,000 they got in error, and they owe 2,000.Like the guy said, we usually owe around $2,000.Yeah.So this is a big deal.And here's why it's important.I did some preparation for it today.About 45% of returns this year were self prepared.That means the person prepared them themselves.And the interesting thing is many of those filers aren't sure they got it right.That's the thing.So, you know, you go online, and Julia nailed it.She goes, I'm going online to this software, and I'm assuming that it's telling me the right thing, but unfortunately it's not.

Juliet Chuang00:42:20

So when you do your practice.Right, and.Sorry.When you do your accounting for clients and stuff, do you usually double check against multiple software or, you know, avenues in order to say I've been able to maximize.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:42:36

Yes and no.So we use expensive tax software.We actually use a product by Intuit, which is owned by TurboTax, which is kind of funny.

Juliet Chuang00:42:45

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:42:46

So I allow the software to do the Rudimentary calculations, the stuff that in the, in the trenches calculations.But what I don't allow it to, is it talked with the client.I don't allow it to ask the questions.I don't allow it to say, well, let me talk you into this.That's the biggest flaw here because, and this is, this is Ralph's pet peeve here.If you don't understand the basic nomenclature, big word.But if you don't understand what they're asking you, then you can have 100 questions.But if you don't understand what the question is to ask you, like in this particular case, I'm not sure how TurboTax did it, but TurboTax had them take both itemized deductions and standard deduction at the same time.

Juliet Chuang00:43:26

Oh, oh, you got one or the.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:43:28

Other, whichever one is better.Somehow this software, I don't know if there was a flaw, a bug or what it was, but it had them take both of it.So instead of having the normal deductions, they had three times the normal deductions because it doubled up on that.So to answer your question, I like to, I do the tax return.First thing I do is I look at last year's tax return and I said, what's changed?Has their income gone up?Has their deductions gone up?Have they added a new child?If something is like, if I see, like in this particular case, if I had seen a refund go from owing $2,000 to getting back $8,000, my radar would have went up and I would have said something's jacked up here.First thing I would have looked at is did they make less money?Then I would have looked at, did their deductions change?

Juliet Chuang00:44:13

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:44:13

Then I would have looked at, did their withholding change?We're going to talk about that next week because our whole money move of the week is going to be talking about this very issue.I'd be looking at those things.

Juliet Chuang00:44:23

Got it.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:44:24

And see the problem is the average person that's doing their 6.5, 65.7 million self prepared returns in this country.

Juliet Chuang00:44:33

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:44:33

Here's the other side of that.75.3 Million were returned by tax pros.

Juliet Chuang00:44:38

Mm.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:44:38

That's a big deal.

Juliet Chuang00:44:40

Is a very big deal.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:44:42

And what's interesting is the IRS actually put out a publication.The IRS.gov visits people that go to IRS.gov is up 62.6% over the last couple years.

Juliet Chuang00:44:54

Is that an indication that they're filing their own taxes through the government?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:44:58

Actually, I think it's an indication that more people are trying to do it.And they're going to the IRS website to try to figure out, how do I do this myself?Because.And I felt this in my own practice.People are trying to save money.They're trying to say, well, instead of paying somebody to do their taxes, they're going out there and trying to figure it themselves.But just think about this, Juliet.I do about 600 tax returns a year.You do one.

Juliet Chuang00:45:20

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:45:21

That's the big difference is that this is something I do.They say, eat, breathe, live this whole thing every single day.

Juliet Chuang00:45:29

That's true.That is very true.Because I will say, like, I have so far, I have always filed my taxes, and I've done it with my mom as well.You know, I'll do it.I'll double check every single year.Tax time.I am sobbing internally because I feel like the language just changes enough every single year where I'm like, how do I parse through this sentence?How do I understand what you're trying to say?What should I actually do?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:45:58

And that's what.Clients compliment me all the time, like, Ralph, I love coming to you because you handle it.I don't have to worry about it because I've said to them, sometimes, I said, your return is super simple.You know, you could go.Because I'm an honest guy, you could go online and file this yourself.Nope, Never going to happen.Because I know that you do this every day.I know that if there's a crap, if there's a problem, if I get a notice, I pick up the phone and call you.Here's an interesting thing.20, 26 Confidence survey.42%.Yep.42% Feel confident they filed their returns correctly.

Juliet Chuang00:46:28

I never do.I'm at 30.I never.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:46:31

Listen to this.30% Think they missed deductions or credits.A third of the people who are doing tax returns think they missed the credit or deductions.27% Worry they filed incorrectly.

Juliet Chuang00:46:42

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:46:43

23% Admit they have passed errors on their returns.

Juliet Chuang00:46:46

Yeah.I have a question here, because as someone who has never paid for an accountant to help me file tax returns, how does that you.If somebody is trying to look for that help because they're like, hey, I would rather have an accountant feel like that.Security, definitely.They definitely know the rules.How should they go about finding a trusted accountant?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:47:06

What a great question.And I can't answer that in an hour.I can't answer that in a few minutes.But I can tell you this, okay.Be careful who you go for.Look for Credentials, like as an example we talk about, I'm a licensed public accountant.That means I hold a license with the state of Delaware.I've passed the test.I have continuing education credits.I have to have insurance, what's called errors and omissions insurance.I am a professional.The thing you need to understand about tax preparers, it's unregulated.Anybody could say they're a tax preparer and hang a shingle up outside and said, I prepare taxes for money.

Juliet Chuang00:47:41

I didn't know that.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:47:41

There is no licensing, per se.The IRS has tried to do this thing called a return.There was this thing where you had to pass a test and all that.The courts threw it out because so many people were just doing this on the side.So the first thing I would say is, does this person have a legitimate credential issued by either the federal government or the state?That's first thing.Second thing, if they have that, go look up their license because you can go to.Yes, absolutely.Like for me, you can go to the Delaware Board of Accountancy.You can type in my name.Now be careful because there's two Ralph Esteps.One's my dad and one's me.My dad doesn't have a license to practice anymore because he made bad decisions.So if you go look me up, make sure you put Ralph Estepp Jr.It's very important.Go do that.Go do that.Do that for your doctor.Do that for your dentist.Do that for anybody that holds himself out as a professional.So many people don't do that.They just see the word doctor and say, well, this guy or this lady must be great.Do that for your tax person as well.Because here's the thing.A lot of these big box tax places, H and R Block, Jackson Hewitt, they hire people in the fall.They take a six week tax course and then they give them the software and put them in front of a computer and they're tax pros.Oh, that is a fact.

Juliet Chuang00:49:00

Who did not know that?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:49:02

That is a fact.It's a side hustle for them.And listen, if your return is super simple, if you've got a W2 and you've got maybe a mortgage interest statement and something simple, most of the time they can handle.But what you need to understand, the only difference between them and doing it yourself is they're sitting in front of the same software that you're using online.They're just helping you understand it.Yeah, so those are the things I look for.Are they licensed?But then go look at reviews.That's Another big one.Go and do Google reviews.

Juliet Chuang00:49:32

I know exactly what I'm going to talk to you next week in.An accountant reacts.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:49:36

Yeah.Because I gotta listen.And this is interesting.I got one bad review and it's driving me crazy.

Juliet Chuang00:49:42

Oh.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:49:42

But like my marketing person said, it's always good to have one or two bad reviews because it means you're human.And the reason I got a bad review is the person thought I charged too much.Okay, well, if you don't like my fees, there's, there's a bunch of.You know, it's funny when people call in, sometimes I'll say to them, if you're shopping for the lowest cost, I am not your guy.

Juliet Chuang00:49:59

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:50:00

But here's the other thing.Let me tell you the other side of that, too.I've seen what some of these big box tax houses charge for tax preparation.I charge less.

Juliet Chuang00:50:11

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:50:12

Because here's what they do.They add in extra fees.Well.Oh, you want this electronically filed.There's a fee for that.Oh, you want your refund tomorrow?Oh, there's a fee for that.Oh, you want audit protection.That's another pet peeve.There's a fee for that.But let's get back to the topic at hand because I want to really address this.So there's a couple things.And here's the other benefit to using a tax break professional who's credentialed.

Juliet Chuang00:50:35

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:50:35

If I make a mistake on your tax return, the IRS can still come after you for the tax.

Juliet Chuang00:50:42

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:50:42

They can still come after you for any interest that you might owe for not paying.But if you get charged a penalty.So let me explain.If you file your tax return.Yeah, let's talk about this.So if you file your tax return and there's something wrong on your tax return, the IRS will send you a friendly little notice that says, hey, Julia.Ah, we looked at your return and something's not right here.

Juliet Chuang00:51:03

Yeah, they'll say 8,000.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:51:05

Exactly.So what they will do is they will charge you a penalty.It's called an accuracy related penalty.It can be up to 50% of what the tax is.You heard me right?

Juliet Chuang00:51:15

Of what the taxes.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:51:17

Yeah.So for that particular situation.Yes.

Juliet Chuang00:51:19

Yeah, yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:51:20

That penalty could have been $5,000.

Juliet Chuang00:51:22

Oh my.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:51:24

Then they charge you interest from the date that the taxes should have been paid.So you're going to.Do you understand what I'm saying?So if the tax return was due April 15th, and now you're getting this notice a year later, because that's when it usually happens.A year later, when they actually do the work.

Juliet Chuang00:51:37

So they charge you a year's worth of interest.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:51:40

Potentially Correct.

Juliet Chuang00:51:41

That's great.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:51:42

Now, if you use somebody like me, you bring me the notice and I say, you know what?That's right.I forgot about that.I made a mistake.Because guess what?Ralph makes mistakes.

Juliet Chuang00:51:51

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:51:52

There is a section of the IRS code which is called reasonable reliance on a third party.And basically what it means is, if Juliet comes to me and she's relying on me as a credentialed professional, right.And I make a mistake with her return or I don't explain something to her, if I say to her, hey, you can do this and you can't, yes, the IRS will waive any penalties.They won't waive the interest, but they will waive the penalty because of reasonable reliance on a third party.Because the IRS recognizes Ralph holds himself out as a professional.Here's the problem with that.You got to make sure that you've done your due diligence to make sure that this isn't a clown behind this third party.If they don't have the credentials, if they don't have what's called a PTIN number, but they're registered with the irs, those are all important things.

Juliet Chuang00:52:37

PT numbers.Let's put that in the show.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:52:38

Yeah.So here's where the litigation is happening, right?People are saying to the IRS when they get these notices, Well, I use TurboTax, and TurboTax talk me into this.The IRS's position is TurboTax is not a reasonable reliance on a third party.That's really what the issue is here.

Juliet Chuang00:52:59

Well, that sucks.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:53:00

I'm not arguing with you, and I can see both sides of this, but that's really the issue that we're talking about here.The thing about tax software, it's going to help you with math errors.Like, when I started doing taxes, we used to use pencils and use calculators.I mean, we would make math errors.Those don't happen anymore.Here's a couple things that happen.Big thing that happens to a lot of people.Social Security name number mismatches.Like, if you get married and you change your name, but your Social Security card still has your old maiden name on it.That's a big deal.Sometimes your dependents, you got their name spelled wrong, you're missing items, you're the wrong filing status.All of those things happen.Those aren't necessarily audits.They're more so, hey, we found an issue with your tax return, but this is the big thing.This is in this is in federal tax court right now.It's getting litigated because.And here's the thing.I don't know if you know about this or not.You can go in a lot of these AI chatbots now and you can actually put your tax information in there and say, do my tax return for me, and they will actually generate the tax forms for you.Don't do that.If you're listening to me, do not do that.Your data is not safe.But I know it's happening because I've had clients call me or bring in.Well, Claude did my tax return.Let's see how you can do Ralph.And I just cringe.I do.I just cringe.

Juliet Chuang00:54:16

That's a really good word.Duchess of nj.Ooh.Said a couple of things.Duchess got queasy listening to the story about your client, which agreed.And then laughed out loud at my.That sucks.Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:54:32

We don't hold back here, you know, like we call it, like we see it.But anyway, so the big takeaway for this section, because we got to move on here is if you're going to use software, read what it's asking you.And if you don't understand it, read some more.

Juliet Chuang00:54:50

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:54:51

Don't let it talk you into stuff, because it will talk you into stuff.Because the natural tendency of you being is you want to be as big a refund as you can.Right.Or you want to pay as little as you can.

Juliet Chuang00:55:00

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:55:01

These softwares do that.Whereas if you're sitting in front of me and you say to me, I'll give you a great example.Let's say you come to me, Juliet, and you say, ralph, you know what?I'm starting my own business and I'm not making any money yet.But I really want to write off all these expenses and you start listing all these expenses.

Juliet Chuang00:55:16

Right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:55:17

I'm going to say to you, juliet, not a good plan.You're going to get audited.

Juliet Chuang00:55:22

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:55:23

And I'm going to explain to you why.I'm going to talk to you about 30 years of experience, what I've seen.Now, if you're on TurboTax, and I'm not picking on TurboTax, go to H and R Block Online.Any of the.They're not going to give you that.They're not going to say, well, wait a minute, what about.

Juliet Chuang00:55:37

Yeah, they're going to be like, yeah, yeah, you want.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:55:39

That's the difference between working with a professional and it's honestly, do it yourself.It's like.It's like these folks that go to Lowe's and Home Depot on the weekends and they're remodeling their own bathrooms.I mean, that's what we're talking about.That's what it comes down to.

Juliet Chuang00:55:53

We have so many more things.I'm going to start writing down other questions I have in future and accountant reacts.But yes, let's move on and just go on to our this week's money move.How about that?

Ralph Estep Jr.00:56:03

Let's go ahead and move to that.Let me just make a quick change here.There we go.So, as you remember, this week's money move, we're going to do a check in our money move this week.And it went right along till we talked about on Tuesday is write down every subscription, every one of them, and cancel one.

Juliet Chuang00:56:23

If you guys have done it in the chat, please let us know.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:56:26

I've started to do it now.Here's where I'm going to use AI so I'm going to give everybody a little tip here.

Juliet Chuang00:56:32

Okay.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:56:32

What you could do if you want to redact, in other words, black out any direct information that's related to you.You could actually upload your credit card statements to AI and say to AI, go through these and give me all the subscriptions that I'm paying.

Juliet Chuang00:56:50

But what you're saying is download your statement, black out your sensitive info.Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:56:54

Or you can go to like any of the credit card statements.You go and download what's called a CSV file.It'll give you a spreadsheet and it just take your personal information off.I don't care if AI knows where I shop and how much I spend.I could care less.

Juliet Chuang00:57:06

Right, right.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:57:07

But what that will allow you to do is instead of having to go through every line one by one, then you can do an aggregation of that and say, hey, give me all the.Give me these by category, give me these by vendor.And then you're going to pop out.I see.Did you want to read what Infor Seeker said here?

Juliet Chuang00:57:22

Enforce Seeker said they deleted Netflix.Yay.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:57:25

Well, that's a good start.

Juliet Chuang00:57:27

That is a very good start.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:57:29

But understand why we're doing this.We're trying to figure out, are we being intentional with our money?

Juliet Chuang00:57:34

Yeah.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:57:36

So when Jason's going to be joining us on the show tomorrow, we're going to ask Jason.We're going to hit him from the side.We're going to say, look, Jason, I'll send him a text and say, look, we're talking about this this week.

Juliet Chuang00:57:44

Well, you got to tell the audience, like, who is Jason first.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:57:46

So Jason, Jason Boknik is a mortgage professional with about as much experience as I have.He's going to join us on the show tomorrow.He's going to talk all about this current interest rate where we're going.If you're a new time or first time home buyer, we're going to talk about that.If you want to refinance, he's going to be here to answer your question.So if you've got any questions, you've got a little bit of time left, send them to us and he will answer them live on the show.So on tomorrow's show, we have a guest on.We're going to talk about mortgages.We're going to talk about all of those type of things.We're going to talk about a scam that starts in the obituaries.Yes, a scam actually starts in obituaries.Going to do our wins of the week and we're going to talk about our money move.So if you've got a question you'd like to ask our mortgage expert, send your question to becoming financially confident.com voicemail.You can record your message right there.Becoming financially confident.com voicemail because Jason would love to answer your questions.

Juliet Chuang00:58:38

Yeah.And definitely bring your money move and also bring your wins of the week.And if you guys haven't noticed yet, sometimes the wins of week, they don't have to be directly related to finances.It could be something that you went to the gym this week and that was like a big move for you, Right.Because everything that you do in life at some point in time, you can, you can follow the line and it will tie to money somewhere.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:58:59

Absolutely.I agree with that 100%.

Juliet Chuang00:59:02

Yeah.So that is it for today's episode of becoming financially confident.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:59:07

And I'm Ralph Eastep Jr. And I am Juliet.And don't forget to join us tomorrow live by going to becomingfinanciallyconfident.com because this is becoming financially confident where every day our goal is to break free from money shame one conversation at a time.So have a great Thursday, Juliet, and we will see everybody tomorrow.

Juliet Chuang00:59:27

Bye.

Ralph Estep Jr.00:59:28

It.